Gundam

[Speedy_Fox_IV]

So I've been sick the last few days which gave me plenty of time to catch up on Mobile Suit Gundam. I've only got a small handful of episodes left (I just finished the episodes based around the Texas space colony) and I have to say that I like it.

[Speedy_Fox_IV]

I finished watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam a bit ago with 0083 Stardust Memories. They were quite good. I liked them. That makes my current watch Gundams:

Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memories
Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam
G-Saviour
Mobile Suit Gundam: Reconguista in G
Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans
Mobile Fighter G Gundam (My favourite so far)

Any recommendations as to what Gundam I should watch/read next?

[Bishie Satoshi]

Jul 10, 2016 19:43:58 GMT -8 Speedy_Fox_IV said:

I finished watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam a bit ago with 0083 Stardust Memories. They were quite good. I liked them. That makes my current watch Gundams:

Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memories
Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam
G-Saviour
Mobile Suit Gundam: Reconguista in G
Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans
Mobile Fighter G Gundam (My favourite so far)

Any recommendations as to what Gundam I should watch/read next?

Wing - if you like retro (My personal favorite of 'em all)
08th MS Team - one of the best U.C. stories so far
Z Gundam - how could you skip this one?
Victory - despite Tomino's backlash on this one and its death rate, this is better than expected
Gundam X - underrated yet pretty darn good
Gundam 00 - One of the best so far in terms of AU (basically a rehashed version of Wing)
SEED - It's okay, decent plot (basically a rehash of the original Gundam)
SEED Destiny - Totally crap but not entirely but don't take my words on it and watch it for yourself (basically a rehash of Z Gundam)
Gundam Unicorn - Great plot and tribute to the OYW
Thunderbolt - Good plot
AGE - It had its moments especially Asemu's arc
Turn A - The series that ties all the Gundam universe. Tomino's masterpiece
Char's counter attack - Good ending tribute for Amuro and Char's rivalry
The Origin - Depicts Char's origin story. Recommended if you love the U.C. timeline.

I'm not a fan of reading manga but Crossbone Gundam is pretty damn good though you have to watch Gundam F91 movie first to get the plot.

[Speedy_Fox_IV]

Jul 11, 2016 2:55:22 GMT -8 Bishie Satoshi said:

Jul 10, 2016 19:43:58 GMT -8 Speedy_Fox_IV said:

I finished watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam a bit ago with 0083 Stardust Memories. They were quite good. I liked them. That makes my current watch Gundams:

Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memories
Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam
G-Saviour
Mobile Suit Gundam: Reconguista in G
Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans
Mobile Fighter G Gundam (My favourite so far)

Any recommendations as to what Gundam I should watch/read next?

Wing - if you like retro (My personal favorite of 'em all)
08th MS Team - one of the best U.C. stories so far
Z Gundam - how could you skip this one?
Victory - despite Tomino's backlash on this one and its death rate, this is better than expected
Gundam X - underrated yet pretty darn good
Gundam 00 - One of the best so far in terms of AU (basically a rehashed version of Wing)
SEED - It's okay, decent plot (basically a rehash of the original Gundam)
SEED Destiny - Totally crap but not entirely but don't take my words on it and watch it for yourself (basically a rehash of Z Gundam)
Gundam Unicorn - Great plot and tribute to the OYW
Thunderbolt - Good plot
AGE - It had its moments especially Asemu's arc
Turn A - The series that ties all the Gundam universe. Tomino's masterpiece
Char's counter attack - Good ending tribute for Amuro and Char's rivalry
The Origin - Depicts Char's origin story. Recommended if you love the U.C. timeline.

I'm not a fan of reading manga but Crossbone Gundam is pretty damn good though you have to watch Gundam F91 movie first to get the plot.

I haven't seen Zeta yet because I don't have it.

Hmm... I might move on to Gundam SEED next. Thanks for the recommendations. ( '-')b

[Speedy_Fox_IV]

Damn. Madman is sold out of Gundam SEED. I'll watch Zeta Gundam instead.

[┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘]

I would recommend SEED and Destiny. I rather like them both. Also Destiny is not even remotely a rehash of Zeta. People just say that because SEED was a modern reimagining of MSG so obviously its sequel must be a reimagining of MSG's sequel too, right? In truth, the share next to nothing in common except a love story arc from Zeta that pretty much all Gundam series share similarities with.

[Speedy_Fox_IV]

Jul 12, 2016 10:00:21 GMT -8 ┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘ said:

I would recommend SEED and Destiny. I rather like them both. Also Destiny is not even remotely a rehash of Zeta. People just say that because SEED was a modern reimagining of MSG so obviously its sequel must be a reimagining of MSG's sequel too, right? In truth, the share next to nothing in common except a love story arc from Zeta that pretty much all Gundam series share similarities with.

If only Madman wasn't out of stock and I had better net access...

Oh well. Zeta is on it's way as we speak.

[Bishie Satoshi]

Jul 12, 2016 10:00:21 GMT -8 ┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘ said:

I would recommend SEED and Destiny. I rather like them both. Also Destiny is not even remotely a rehash of Zeta. People just say that because SEED was a modern reimagining of MSG so obviously its sequel must be a reimagining of MSG's sequel too, right? In truth, the share next to nothing in common except a love story arc from Zeta that pretty much all Gundam series share similarities with.

SPOILER: Click to show

Shinn = Kamille

Angsty teens. Needs strict disciplinary actions

Except Kamille became a decent character while Shinn went down the hill because Fukuda wanted his Kira to shit down the Destiny cast



Kira = Amuro

Returning main characters

Except Tomino wasn't a douchebag to Kamille and didn't let Amuro overshadow him



Athrun = Char/Quattro

Rivals of Kira/Amuro. Mentor to Shinn/Kamille

Except Quattro did an excellent job while Athrun was just plain bad.



Stellar = Four

Product of experiments. Both are lower levels of their universe's evolved humans (Extended and Cyber-Newtype). Both got killed when their gigantic suits were destroyed



Lunamaria = Fa

Leftover love interests



Destroy Gundam (Disguised as a Big Zam) = Psycho Gundam



[/spoiler
]
Plot is original but a lot of elements were borrowed from the Zeta series. other AU series had some U.C. influence in them but C.E. and A.G were the most obvious ones.

[┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘]

Jul 15, 2016 4:54:25 GMT -8 Bishie Satoshi said:

Jul 12, 2016 10:00:21 GMT -8 ┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘ said:

I would recommend SEED and Destiny. I rather like them both. Also Destiny is not even remotely a rehash of Zeta. People just say that because SEED was a modern reimagining of MSG so obviously its sequel must be a reimagining of MSG's sequel too, right? In truth, the share next to nothing in common except a love story arc from Zeta that pretty much all Gundam series share similarities with.

SPOILER: Click to show

Shinn = Kamille

Angsty teens. Needs strict disciplinary actions

Except Kamille became a decent character while Shinn went down the hill because Fukuda wanted his Kira to shit down the Destiny cast



Kira = Amuro

Returning main characters

Except Tomino wasn't a douchebag to Kamille and didn't let Amuro overshadow him



Athrun = Char/Quattro

Rivals of Kira/Amuro. Mentor to Shinn/Kamille

Except Quattro did an excellent job while Athrun was just plain bad.



Stellar = Four

Product of experiments. Both are lower levels of their universe's evolved humans (Extended and Cyber-Newtype). Both got killed when their gigantic suits were destroyed



Lunamaria = Fa

Leftover love interests



Destroy Gundam (Disguised as a Big Zam) = Psycho Gundam



[/spoiler
]
Plot is original but a lot of elements were borrowed from the Zeta series. other AU series had some U.C. influence in them but C.E. and A.G were the most obvious ones.

So basically the just love story arc which I already mentioned? Because every series has a Char Clone.

There are no more borrowed elements in Destiny than there are in any other AU series. The same love story arc that forms the basis of maybe half a dozen episodes in both Zeta and Destiny and by scene importance alone, could be shortened to even two episodes, when both series have 50 episodes? Also, does Quatto actually do a good job considering he's a pathetic loser and an awful character in the terrible Char's Counterattack?

The political interaction of the three main factions form the basis of Zeta. Destiny also has 3 factions but their interactions couldn't be more different. Kamille is rebel against authority, which is why he joins AEUG whereas Shinn is aimless without authority and outright needs one to function. The interaction between him and Rey, and thus, Durandal forms part of his character. Kamille has no such parallel.

The basis of the plot in Destiny is the hatred between the two human types, a parallel to which is completely absent in Zeta.


Also, I thouroughly reject the notion that Shinn went 'downhill' because of Kira. If you take even a moment to look closely at Shinn, then you'll see that his character development could have taken no other path. It's the logical conclusion from day 1.

So no, Destiny isn't at all similar to Zeta, not in any more than any other Gundam series is, at least.

[Bishie Satoshi]

Jul 16, 2016 3:01:56 GMT -8 ┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘ said:

Jul 15, 2016 4:54:25 GMT -8 Bishie Satoshi said:

SPOILER: Click to show

Shinn = Kamille

Angsty teens. Needs strict disciplinary actions

Except Kamille became a decent character while Shinn went down the hill because Fukuda wanted his Kira to shit down the Destiny cast



Kira = Amuro

Returning main characters

Except Tomino wasn't a douchebag to Kamille and didn't let Amuro overshadow him



Athrun = Char/Quattro

Rivals of Kira/Amuro. Mentor to Shinn/Kamille

Except Quattro did an excellent job while Athrun was just plain bad.



Stellar = Four

Product of experiments. Both are lower levels of their universe's evolved humans (Extended and Cyber-Newtype). Both got killed when their gigantic suits were destroyed



Lunamaria = Fa

Leftover love interests



Destroy Gundam (Disguised as a Big Zam) = Psycho Gundam



[/spoiler
]
Plot is original but a lot of elements were borrowed from the Zeta series. other AU series had some U.C. influence in them but C.E. and A.G were the most obvious ones.

So basically the just love story arc which I already mentioned? Because every series has a Char Clone.

There are no more borrowed elements in Destiny than there are in any other AU series. The same love story arc that forms the basis of maybe half a dozen episodes in both Zeta and Destiny and by scene importance alone, could be shortened to even two episodes, when both series have 50 episodes? Also, does Quatto actually do a good job considering he's a pathetic loser and an awful character in the terrible Char's Counterattack?

The political interaction of the three main factions form the basis of Zeta. Destiny also has 3 factions but their interactions couldn't be more different. Kamille is rebel against authority, which is why he joins AEUG whereas Shinn is aimless without authority and outright needs one to function. The interaction between him and Rey, and thus, Durandal forms part of his character. Kamille has no such parallel.

The basis of the plot in Destiny is the hatred between the two human types, a parallel to which is completely absent in Zeta.


Also, I thouroughly reject the notion that Shinn went 'downhill' because of Kira. If you take even a moment to look closely at Shinn, then you'll see that his character development could have taken no other path. It's the logical conclusion from day 1.

So no, Destiny isn't at all similar to Zeta, not in any more than any other Gundam series is, at least.

Char went downhill in CCA but as Quattro, he was a pretty good mentor to Kamille, to which Athrun failed to do for Shinn.

As I've mentioned, plot-wise, Destiny was different but it sure as hell borrowed a lot of elements from the Zeta series making it a rehashed version of Zeta.


Nope, Shinn was suppose to have a decent development, Fukuda just screwed his character due to a conflict with Shinn's Seiyuu. Fukuda threw his hatred for Kenichi Suzumura towards Shinn's character. As a result, Shinn's character became a mess. Even Suzumura stated that SRW Shinn is the real Shinn for him. Add the fact that Kira was a fan-favorite and Fukuda is a fanboy himself so he lets him and the entire Archangel crew shit down the Destiny cast. Not even Tomino is that crazy. Well okay, Tomino is in a different level of crazy. Im looking at you, V Gundam.

SEED Destiny was basically a "what if Zeta have a bad ending route?" scenario.

[┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘]

Turning your conflict with a voice actor into hatred towards the character he voiced makes no sense at all. Besides, there is evidence that there were backstage troubles but no evidence that it ever transferred into what you say it did, because it makes no sense. The conflict existed between the writer and Cagalli's voice actor. Even then, there is no evidence that Cagalli's character was affected since she's pretty much the same character in both SEED and Destiny desite what her fans want to believe. She was always irresponsible and a weak leader. Her 'development' in Destiny is less of 'development' and more 'stagnation' as her character barely changed. Still the same irresponsible authority-fearing idiot. Nevermind that people who hate Destiny have outright falsified interviews and made fake translations to support their crackpot theories.

The character development for Shinn makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense that he would stick with the guy who praises him constantly and gives him medals over the guy who berates him and is an overall mess. Athrun being a failed mentor is intentional since the fact that he is too messed up is clear from the beginning. It makes no sense for Shinn to defect. The groundwork for such an event doesn't exist and what does exist outright goes for the opposite.

The similarities exist only in the main love story arc and principal players in said love story. There is zero similarities in the general story for Destiny and Zeta. They're completely unlike each other. There is no goverment agency abusing its powers without the knowledge of the 'government'. This forms the whole backbone of Zeta's plot. There is no such thing in Destiny. There is no interplay of desparate alliances and betrayals in Destiny. Instead, the conflict is laid out in the beginning and there are no major changes. In Zeta, the interaction of the Titans, AEUG and Neo Zeon and how the former two attempt to form alliances with the later is of great importance to the plot.

Literally the only borrowed element is the main love story of Zeta, something is plaid out over and over again in pretty much every Gundam series since. And Zeta's love story is in fact mostly borrowed from Amuro-Lalah anyway. But because SEED was a reimagining of MSG, people try to draw similarities between Zeta and Destiny as well. But these similarities are superficial at best, which is unsurprising since Zeta is the most succesful Gundam series and all future series take inspiration from it. 00 S2 has more in common with Zeta than Destiny ever will.

[Bishie Satoshi]

Jul 16, 2016 9:36:51 GMT -8 ┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘ said:

Turning your conflict with a voice actor into hatred towards the character he voiced makes no sense at all. Besides, there is evidence that there were backstage troubles but no evidence that it ever transferred into what you say it did, because it makes no sense. The conflict existed between the writer and Cagalli's voice actor. Even then, there is no evidence that Cagalli's character was affected since she's pretty much the same character in both SEED and Destiny desite what her fans want to believe. She was always irresponsible and a weak leader. Her 'development' in Destiny is less of 'development' and more 'stagnation' as her character barely changed. Still the same irresponsible authority-fearing idiot. Nevermind that people who hate Destiny have outright falsified interviews and made fake translations to support their crackpot theories.

The character development for Shinn makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense that he would stick with the guy who praises him constantly and gives him medals over the guy who berates him and is an overall mess. Athrun being a failed mentor is intentional since the fact that he is too messed up is clear from the beginning. It makes no sense for Shinn to defect. The groundwork for such an event doesn't exist and what does exist outright goes for the opposite.

The similarities exist only in the main love story arc and principal players in said love story. There is zero similarities in the general story for Destiny and Zeta. They're completely unlike each other. There is no goverment agency abusing its powers without the knowledge of the 'government'. This forms the whole backbone of Zeta's plot. There is no such thing in Destiny. There is no interplay of desparate alliances and betrayals in Destiny. Instead, the conflict is laid out in the beginning and there are no major changes. In Zeta, the interaction of the Titans, AEUG and Neo Zeon and how the former two attempt to form alliances with the later is of great importance to the plot.

Literally the only borrowed element is the main love story of Zeta, something is plaid out over and over again in pretty much every Gundam series since. And Zeta's love story is in fact mostly borrowed from Amuro-Lalah anyway. But because SEED was a reimagining of MSG, people try to draw similarities between Zeta and Destiny as well. But these similarities are superficial at best, which is unsurprising since Zeta is the most succesful Gundam series and all future series take inspiration from it. 00 S2 has more in common with Zeta than Destiny ever will.

And who's fault was it that even Cagalli went downhill like the rest of the Destiny characters? Morisawa and Fukuda could have done something better. She was a decent character in SEED but she was treated like a trash half way to the end of Destiny not even giving her any important role at least one last time. She was a weak character and a leader, something which could have been fixed by the writers. But that wasn't the case and instead they gave a lame excuse that Cagalli was less important "anyway". She was an important character but due to personal conflicts with the seiyuus, she was poorly treated. Remember how she was only seen sitting on her office without even a single word? How instead of Cagalli, it was Meyrin who was with Athrun at the end? (Some said it was because Shindo already left). It was as if she was a nobody. Suzumura also had an issue with Fukuda for standing up for Shindo, thus the same treatment for Shinn's character.



Shinn's character could have gone far better. Instead, he was portrayed as a teen throwing tantrum all over the battlefield while being manipulated by Gil and Rey's sweet talks and remained as such until the end. He needed a friend that he can share his feelings with and a mentor to guide him (which he got in SRW courtesy of Kamille, Amuro and Quattro btw). But what did he get in Destiny instead? A manipulative comrade and leader who he sees as a role model and a weak mentor resulting to a weak to none development at all. Athrun should have had his development at the end of SEED yet was the same as he was in SEED's early days but even so, he should have guided Shinn properly without being conflicted by his own issues. Even Char/Quattro had his own issues during Zeta but it didn't affect his mentoring of Kamille. Athrun was doing a decent job halfway through the story but failed later when he was trashed by Kira and since then Shinn lost his respect to him. Shinn could have had a good reason to defect had Athrun did a better job convincing him that something is definitely wrong with Durandal. Instead, Rey did the talking most and won over Shinn's loyalty. Even in SRW, Shinn saw that something was wrong with Durandal's scheme.



Except there was. Blue Cosmos. Titans wanted Zeon eliminated. BC wanted Coordinators eliminated. BC also abused and manipulated the Earth Alliance in C.E.. Also, which faction do you think had the Destroy Gundam (which was a parallel to U.C.'s Psycho Gundam btw)? Who piloted it? Stellar, who was the Four of C.E. (not to mention, their deaths and how they were an impact to the main characters). No desperate alliances? See how ZAFT and Earth Alliance were fighting over ORB, which the latter was successful at courtesy of BC? Coordinators = New-types (Well, not in terms of trait but Coordinators are the equivallence of Newtypes in C.E.. Also, Extended = Cyber-Newtype). Sure, BC wasn't the center of the plot in Destiny as it was for Titans in Zeta but the two factions share the same ideology, concept and both are basically the evil corps of the Earth Federation/Alliance. As I've mentioned, the plot differs from each other but the elements and concepts of Destiny is what made it a rehash of Zeta and yeah, I'm not going to deny that 00 S2 was also a rehash of Zeta as well. 00 was basically Wing + Zeta altogether.

[┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘]

Is the concept of failure new to you? Shinn's downward spiral is a very realistic portrayal of what would actually happen in his case. Same with Cagalli and Athrun. People repeating the mistakes of the past is a recurring theme in Destiny, one that happens far too often to be mere coincidence. This isn't a case of the writers derailing a character because they hated his voice actor. It is completely intentional. There is no evidence that Shinn's character was drastically changed, only the amount of screentime was affected.

And let me just add that the notion that the writers intentionally messed up Cagalli's character is downright laughable since she is one of the two most politically powerful people by the end of the series. That hardly seems like they screwed with her character. She's literally one of the two most powerful people in the whole of CE.

Once again, it makes zero sense to shit on the character because you hate their voice actor and there is zero evidence that this happened at all.

Titans wanted Zeon eliminated. BC wanted Coordinators eliminated.

One faction wanting to eliminate another faction is not 'rehashed elements', it's basic war story telling. Come on now, using this as an example of 'similarities' is just ridiculous. The motives and actions are completely different.

BC also abused and manipulated the Earth Alliance in C.E.

Blue Cosmos is no longer a sub-entity of the EA. It IS the EA, more specifically, the Atlantic Federation. THe fact that Titans are acting outside the authority of the Earth Federation and subverting them in Zeta is a crucial plot point on which the story hinges. There is no parallel to the Blue Cosmos in its Destiny incarnation. LOGOS meanwhile is a group that exists outside both factions in CE and their motives are also completely different. Their idealogy of 'war for profit' has no parallels in Zeta.

No desperate alliances? See how ZAFT and Earth Alliance were fighting over ORB, which the latter was successful at courtesy of BC?

Uh no, ZAFT is not fighting over ORB. It is an enemy from day 1 in Destiny. The later half of Zeta involves AEUG and the Titans trying to gain the an alliance with Neo Zeon but these alliances fall apart and rebuilt and fall apart again quickly. No such events happen in Destiny.

Sure, BC wasn't the center of the plot in Destiny as it was for Titans in Zeta but the two factions share the same ideology, concept and both are basically the evil corps of the Earth Federation/Alliance.

Uh no, did you even watch Zeta or Destiny? The Titans are a political organization with political goals of gaining power. Blue Cosmos is racially charged organization and wants nothing more than genocide. LOGOS meanwhile supposedly only cares about profit and making endless war. All of the goals are distinct and not comparable at all.

As I've mentioned, the plot differs from each other but the elements and concepts of Destiny is what made it a rehash of Zeta

The plot differs radically. The elements and concepts are not borrowed from Zeta as they are not unique to Zeta in the first place. The Kamille and Four love story itself owes a lot to Amura and Lalah. The similarities are so superficial that calling Destiny a rehash of Zeta is pure bullshit.

[Bishie Satoshi]

SPOILER: Click to show

Possible death flag on Atra???

[Speedy_Fox_IV]

Episode 26 of Iron Blooded Orphans. In which Shino shows that he is ripped as fuck.