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Post by PichuAuraGuardian19 on Mar 2, 2013 8:21:49 GMT -8
Why exactly do you guys like Advanceshipping? It has been hinted throughout the series that May and Drew have unrequited feelings for each other that peaked with the 'Unbelievable Lightness of Seeing'.
Ash has not shown much attraction towards Ash and has instead, taken focus on another female companion of his who loves her aquatic companions oh so very much.
Your first mistake was when you mixed up the shippings. We support Ash loving May, not Ash loving Ash. The next was in using the word "unrequited". With most cases of shippings, unless feelings for one another are actually expressed in words or a true sign of affection like a kiss or more, then one cannot correctly state that two people have feelings for one another. Also, your use of the hasty generalization fallacy hurt your case. You're generalizing that Ash is attracted to Misty and May has feelings for Drew without any proof. What makes Advanceshipping so special? It's nothing but a platonic relationship between mentor Ash Ketchum, and his student May. There was no romantic tension between the two unlike with Ash/Misty and Drew/May. With Ash and Misty, Misty's Crush was on the forefront of most episodes within the Orange Islands arc. With Misty choosing to stay with Ash rather than being with her temporary crush Rudy. Interestingly, Ash has shown remarkable hints within this arc as well. He himself has shown getting jealous with Misty's flirting on Rudy and Danny. With Drew and May, the hints were quite obvious from the moment Drew first entered the Anime. The fact that Drew has been giving May red roses (which are known for a symbol of love, as opposed to something like James's differently colored roses) shows that he cares for May deeply. But enough about those two. It's time to dissect Advanceshipping. I'll start off with 'The Bicker the Better' It has been one of the most cherished Advanceshipping moments ever since its introduction, but was it really all that important? Notice on how Ash and May react over Oscar and Andi's thoughts about them being a couple. No Blushing. Just requited HATE towards one another. Lets contrast this with Poke and Contest. When Ash and Misty were accused of being a couple by James, they both blush it off, with mutual understanding and slight disdain because of their unresolved tension towards one another. This is similar to Contestshipping as a variety of characters imply that May has a crush on Drew and vice versa. Caroline for example believes that May has a crush on DREW and not Ash, despite the fact that he gave her some leftover ice cream from the Grand Festival Party, in which, May vehemently denies in front of her friends like a normal girl. Same goes with how she reacted to Harley, in May and Drew's Sunset Scene, in which May vigorously blushes against Harley's claim that they both might be doing something alone together. Advanceshipping only got Oscar and Andi, whom didn't incite Ash and May's feelings for one another at all. (There's more coming btw) Okay, you really need to stop using any forms of the word "requited". It's hurting your argument. You say that Ash and May have "requited" feelings of "hate" for one another, but this is basically just begging the question. Where is your evidence that Ash and May actually hate one another? I'd like to see that, please. Another thing, your argument is just a big case of the Straw Man fallacy. You're setting up a wimpy version of Advanceshipping and knocking it down. That's hurting your argument because you're not fighting against the true power of Advanceshipping. You also used appeal to ignorance in your case. I've seen no proof that Harley actually support Contestshipping. For all we know, he was just trying to mess with her head like he usually does. There's no complete evidence and that's really weakening your argument. And then there's your false dichotomy. You've set this up to where there are only two choices: Ash and May loving each other or hating each other. You've knocked down any regards to one side of the argument just so there's only the choice of May and Ash hating each other. There's a lot of other choices, but you don't go into any of them. I'd also like to say that some other 'golden' Advanceshipping moments have their flaws within them. The Luvdisc hint, in which two people will be 'blessed with eternal love' when people find them is ridiculous to no end. For starters, the games and the anime are within their own separate continuities. The differences are enough to make the in game Pokedex irrelevant. For example, why was Pikachu able to even damage Blaine's Rhydon back in Season 1? Or why was Thunder Armor even plausible, when Pikachu should have shocked Swellow to death? And even if the dex information were to be true, that does not stop these plausibilities: 1. The School of Luvdisc could have repressented May and Manaphy's lasting relationship, as well as Ash and Pikachu's. The Dex never specified if the loving couple had to be both human beings. 2. Ash and Dawn saw Luvdisc as well, does that mean Ash will have eternal love with both Dawn and May? 3. Misty and her sister Daisy both have Luvdisc as well, are they in love? (and yes, this one is ridiculous, but it has been used before in arguments) This is a really big case of Red Herring. You go completely off tangent in the middle of your argument by accusing the Pokedex of being wrong. You go to talk about Pikachu when you initially were trying to focus on Luvdisc. Shouldn't you just focus on Luvdisc the entire time? Just saying.
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Post by praise luke on Mar 2, 2013 8:23:13 GMT -8
Looks like I missed quite the thread last night.
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Post by Yoh on Mar 2, 2013 10:30:34 GMT -8
Yes. It was quite manly. Manly fists of manliness to be honest.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2013 12:07:42 GMT -8
Alright. I originally had quite a bit of rebuttals for
PichuandAuraGuardian Ranger Jack Walker
and the like.
But I accidentally hit the [X] button on my browser.
I'll probably close this thread as I don't think I could retype everything within an adequate timeframe, and I am a bit busy as of the moment.
But to the people who thought I was being legit with all of that improper usage of English, all this was taken from Youtube/Bulbagarden/Serebii.net, and restructured to my fitting.
I probably made myself look like a fool, but eh.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2013 12:16:17 GMT -8
Alright. I originally had quite a bit of rebuttals for PichuandAuraGuardian Ranger Jack Walker and the like. But I accidentally hit the [X] button on my browser. I'll probably close this thread as I don't think I could retype everything within an adequate timeframe, and I am a bit busy as of the moment. But to the people who thought I was being legit with all of that improper usage of English, all this was taken from Youtube/Bulbagarden/Serebii.net, and restructured to my fitting. I probably made myself look like a fool, but eh. Meh, you just tried to rile us up, which never happened... except for Pichu, who's always riled up.
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Post by LuciferIX on Mar 2, 2013 12:41:14 GMT -8
Not really, but those of us who recognized the fact that it was mostly regurgitated arguments that most debaters against Advanceshipping do, even back when the real debates were raging, it was kinda interesting just to watch. We all pretty much knew what you were wanting to do so there was no harm in it.
I'll leave the thread open until tonight for anyone to answer or put in their own comments but then it'll be locked and moved to the finished area. We already have one of these up already, even if it's pretty much dead, lol.
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Post by praise luke on Mar 2, 2013 12:42:53 GMT -8
Ok, I didn't want to post an actual opinion here down to the fact that everyone was having "fun" debating and talking about it... but I would like to express an opinion.
Don't feel offended. It's just how I see it
I feel that this whole debating on which ship is better is a bit pointless. Personally I have never jumped into this whole "shipping war" thing because I ship certain people, because at the end of the day it means next to nothing. Also just because we support one ship, doesn't exactly mean that we have to automatically hate another ship that could be considered an opposite or a rivalry. Advanceshipping is my favourite ship by far, but I also ship Pokeshipping as well as a lot of other shippings involving Ash.
Also bashing a ship is just as pointless because it comes across as childish. What does saying "OMG (insert ship here) sucks. If you support it you can jump off a cliff and die" prove? Nothing. If anything it shows a bit of ignorance and the fact that you could be a little close-minded.
The only way that any of this could be justified (again in my opinion) is if one of the main shippings becomes canon. And lets be honest...none of the main shippings will be canon ever. If this is a world where the main character has been 10 for 16 years then it is safe to say that stuff like relationships will never be touched upon, the exception being older characters that are married and various Characters of the day.
Also has any main character (besides Brock) ever said "I love you, I want to be in a relationship with you." No. Anything less than that is just a hint. So it means that there are going to be hints between like any and every character in the anime. The only thing that we can do is respect that people like different shippings.
There is no point in a lot that has been said, sorry to say.
But that's just me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2013 13:15:28 GMT -8
Not really, but those of us who recognized the fact that it was mostly regurgitated arguments that most debaters against Advanceshipping do, even back when the real debates were raging, it was kinda interesting just to watch. We all pretty much knew what you were wanting to do so there was no harm in it. I'll leave the thread open until tonight for anyone to answer or put in their own comments but then it'll be locked and moved to the finished area. We already have one of these up already, even if it's pretty much dead, lol. Back for the moment. Ahh, why does is the FAFSA (College Loan) Deadline today? >.> It was just a little experiment of mine, to see how well we'd do as a community. I mean, since we are working on our own Advanceshipping hint list, I'd figure that we would be ready against any of our detractors. Remember, once it's complete, I'll be compiling it into one video for everyone to see! However, what I failed to realize, is that I just can't pull off any of the Pro-Contestshipping arguments correctly, considering I'm not even one myself, and in turn, my 'argument' was just a rehash of the past, going through the motions and whatnot. I do know for sure though that Pichu can defend Advanceshipping rather well, as well as Ranger Jack Walker! So I'm glad I got some results out of it!
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Post by Dr. Phil E. Sophical on Mar 2, 2013 13:48:36 GMT -8
To voice my opinion:
If I've said it once, I've said it a million times. A shipping debate is like a cheese sandwich. There's no meat in it.
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Post by ┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘ on Mar 2, 2013 14:08:40 GMT -8
We should learn from the First Shipping War. It never ends.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2013 14:12:18 GMT -8
Not really, but those of us who recognized the fact that it was mostly regurgitated arguments that most debaters against Advanceshipping do, even back when the real debates were raging, it was kinda interesting just to watch. We all pretty much knew what you were wanting to do so there was no harm in it. I'll leave the thread open until tonight for anyone to answer or put in their own comments but then it'll be locked and moved to the finished area. We already have one of these up already, even if it's pretty much dead, lol. Back for the moment. Ahh, why does is the FAFSA (College Loan) Deadline today? >.> It was just a little experiment of mine, to see how well we'd do as a community. I mean, since we are working on our own Advanceshipping hint list, I'd figure that we would be ready against any of our detractors. Remember, once it's complete, I'll be compiling it into one video for everyone to see! However, what I failed to realize, is that I just can't pull off any of the Pro-Contestshipping arguments correctly, considering I'm not even one myself, and in turn, my 'argument' was just a rehash of the past, going through the motions and whatnot. I do know for sure though that Pichu can defend Advanceshipping rather well, as well as Ranger Jack Walker! So I'm glad I got some results out of it! It's just because, I think anyway's, most of us don't care. I personally feel that, when I defend a ship, I'm bashing on others. I don't know, I just don't like bashing on ships. It's like, arguing which pie flavour is the best. Yes, they're different flavours, but in the end, their all pies. We all have a different taste in ships, but in the end, they're all the same. If a real Poke/Contest/Coma/Etc. shipper came up to me and said he/she wasn't too found on Advanceshipping, I'd just say that's fine. I don't care. I just don't. I don't mind making a list WHY I like Advanceshipping. But to make a list of why Advanceshipping is better than other ships, no thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2013 14:13:20 GMT -8
Also, @jack That was fucking beautiful. I fucking had a rush of old feels when you mentioned Ash and Brock's bro hug moment. SO MANY FEELS.
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Post by ┌༼ຈل͜ຈ༽┘ on Mar 2, 2013 14:17:13 GMT -8
It is by far, one of my favourite scenes in the anime. It's actually really well written!
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Post by PichuAuraGuardian19 on Mar 2, 2013 14:37:27 GMT -8
Alright. I originally had quite a bit of rebuttals for PichuandAuraGuardian Ranger Jack Walker and the like. But I accidentally hit the [X] button on my browser. I'll probably close this thread as I don't think I could retype everything within an adequate timeframe, and I am a bit busy as of the moment. But to the people who thought I was being legit with all of that improper usage of English, all this was taken from Youtube/Bulbagarden/Serebii.net, and restructured to my fitting. I probably made myself look like a fool, but eh. Meh, you just tried to rile us up, which never happened... except for Pichu, who's always riled up. Not really. I just felt like analyzing his rhetoric and pointing out to everyone that the only way to ever win an argument is with clear, undeniable evidence.
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Post by LuciferIX on Mar 2, 2013 23:49:54 GMT -8
Not really, but those of us who recognized the fact that it was mostly regurgitated arguments that most debaters against Advanceshipping do, even back when the real debates were raging, it was kinda interesting just to watch. We all pretty much knew what you were wanting to do so there was no harm in it. I'll leave the thread open until tonight for anyone to answer or put in their own comments but then it'll be locked and moved to the finished area. We already have one of these up already, even if it's pretty much dead, lol. Back for the moment. Ahh, why does is the FAFSA (College Loan) Deadline today? >.> It was just a little experiment of mine, to see how well we'd do as a community. I mean, since we are working on our own Advanceshipping hint list, I'd figure that we would be ready against any of our detractors. Remember, once it's complete, I'll be compiling it into one video for everyone to see! However, what I failed to realize, is that I just can't pull off any of the Pro-Contestshipping arguments correctly, considering I'm not even one myself, and in turn, my 'argument' was just a rehash of the past, going through the motions and whatnot. I do know for sure though that Pichu can defend Advanceshipping rather well, as well as Ranger Jack Walker! So I'm glad I got some results out of it! It's never easy to argue from the other side, especially when both sides can only try to debate who has the stronger possibilities. And because neither side could really obtain enough concrete evidence it finally degraded into the Shipping Wars where it just caused problems for all three, namely us though considering the other two could, and usually did, coexist and cooperate with each other. But as I said, I'll be locking the thread as of now. And as was also mentioned there is already a "Fight For Your Ship" thread so if you want to continue the discussion. But I'll keep the thread here for another day for easier reference.
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